Traitor Fox? / Plastic Jock?

[Keith_M]

After reading this (http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Fox-waits--on-.5621724.jp), I wondered what the nickname would be for Fox if he does get called up to the squad.


After all, with "Traitor McGeady", "Plastic Paddy" or whatever the latest name is for the guy (personally I just stick with "wee divin scrote"), I'm sure everyone will absolutely insist on some consistency.



:devil:

[deek]

How about, who the **** are you?

[Keith_M]

how about, who the **** are you?


7/10

[Steve-O]

After reading this (http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Fox-waits--on-.5621724.jp), I wondered what the nickname would be for Fox if he does get called up to the squad.


After all, with "Traitor McGeady", "Plastic Paddy" or whatever the latest name is for the guy (personally I just stick with "wee divin scrote"), I'm sure everyone will absolutely insist on some consistency.



:devil:

I wouldn't Ruel it out.

:wink:

[Wilson]

How about, who the **** are you?

Who the Fox that?

Surely?

[deek]

Who the Fox that?

Surely?

Please, don't call me Shirley :duck:

[steakbake]

Ah you see, it's different when they aren't Irish. The footballati in Glasgow won't mind that, though some will be surprised that he's turned his back on England to play for a diddy national team 'supported by Jacobites'. :duck:

[Hibster]

Its different though. If Fox gets picked no-one could really accuse him of being a traitor - the guy will never get picked for England, so is settling for second best in order to get some international football. Whereas McGeady would have walked into the Scotland team.

I personally don't think we should be picking players on the grandparent rule, but if we're going to do it then Fox looks a decent player so wouldn't mind seeing him called up

[JimBHibees]

Its different though. If Fox gets picked no-one could really accuse him of being a traitor - the guy will never get picked for England, so is settling for second best in order to get some international football. Whereas McGeady would have walked into the Scotland team.

I personally don't think we should be picking players on the grandparent rule, but if we're going to do it then Fox looks a decent player so wouldn't mind seeing him called up

Totally agree for it to be the same, Fox would have been saying he was Scottish when 15 or so. Personally dont have an issue with guys being chosen via the grandparent rule if their first choice doesnt want them.

[hibsdaft]

what i find funny is that some of the same people who call him a traitor also sing "why don't you go home" to Scots-Irish players like him and James McCarthy...

[NOLA]

he doesn't get anywhere near a look in for england but would go straight into the scotland team! says it all really about where we are sadly

[blackpoolhibs]

he doesn't get anywhere near a look in for england but would go straight into the scotland team! says it all really about where we are sadly

We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to england.

[Keith_M]

Its different though. If Fox gets picked no-one could really accuse him of being a traitor - the guy will never get picked for England, so is settling for second best in order to get some international football. Whereas McGeady would have walked into the Scotland team.


OK, I understand now. If you're half decent you CAN be accused of being a traitor and if you're just a diddy you're whiter than white.

[Hibster]

OK, I understand now. If you're half decent you CAN be accused of being a traitor and if you're just a diddy you're whiter than white.

Surely you can appreciate there's a difference though? If England wanted to call up Fox, but he chose instead to play for Scotland, that would be different. But they don't want him, so he's just doing what he needs to do to get some international football. Nobody loses out. Whereas McGeady could easily have played for Scotland, but didn't want to. So Scotland loses out.

I wouldn't call McGeady a 'traitor' either but there's a fairly big difference imo between shunning your country of birth and opting to play for a different country, and settling to play for a different country because you're not good enough to play for your country of birth

[sesoim]

OK, I understand now. If you're half decent you CAN be accused of being a traitor and if you're just a diddy you're whiter than white.


I wouldn't put it like that, but that IS more or less the case.

I'd pick other examples for this - Owen Coyle and Tommy Coyne. Neither could get a game for Scotland, so when Ireland came calling in their late 20s, they said yes. There is nothing disloyal in that, and nobody (apart from the odd bigot) criticized them for taking the opportunity with Ireland. But McGeady WOULD have been picked by Scotland, the country he was born and brought up in. So he IS a traitor, full stop.

[marinello59]

I really couldn't care less which country a player chooses to represent. If the rules allow them to make a choice then let them make a choice. Up to them really.

[CentreLine]

I actually think he looks like a decent player and if he wants to represent the country of his grandparents then I am all for it. Look at poor Joe Baker, Scots to the marrow but had to represent england because he was born that side of the border. There could be any number of reasons for his family being in england but that does not mean they are necessarily not proud Scots. The same I guess goes for mcgeady. Although I think there may have been a bit of the dummy parting company with the lips on his part:dummytit:

[Groathillgrump]

I've always felt the grandparent rule was stretching the selection criteria a bit too far but it's there so I suppose we should use it if others are taking advantage of it too.

What annoys me about the possibility of Fox getting called up is the fact that if he'd still being playing with Coventry he probably wouldn't have got a sniff of the Scotland squad. A move to Celtic happens and, hey presto, he's suddenly been touted for a call up. Some things never change. :bitchy:

[JimBHibees]

I've always felt the grandparent rule was stretching the selection criteria a bit too far but it's there so I suppose we should use it if others are taking advantage of it too.

What annoys me about the possibility of Fox getting called up is the fact that if he'd still being playing with Coventry he probably wouldn't have got a sniff of the Scotland squad. A move to Celtic happens and, hey presto, he's suddenly been touted for a call up. Some things never change. :bitchy:

couldnt agree more with your second point. If the Coventry full back had said he could play for Scotland, he probably wouldnt have been getting a look in because he is with Celtc he is seen as a shoe in. Pathetic. Personally think Whittaker is a better player also.

[ancienthibby]

I've always felt the grandparent rule was stretching the selection criteria a bit too far but it's there so I suppose we should use it if others are taking advantage of it too.

What annoys me about the possibility of Fox getting called up is the fact that if he'd still being playing with Coventry he probably wouldn't have got a sniff of the Scotland squad. A move to Celtic happens and, hey presto, he's suddenly been touted for a call up. Some things never change. :bitchy:

Good for the guy, I say!!:agree:

So, perhaps he had a low profile, but McGeady had a high profile and where did that get our national team??:devil:

(Oh, and he seems to be a decent player:greengrin).

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Altohugh his method of playing for Scotland may be questionable, i dont think theres any doubt he would be a great addition to a real problem position of Scotland, Wallace looks a good prospect, but apart from that there is Davidson, McLevely and Naysmith, all very average players, or you could go with Whittaker out of position. With Hutton and Fox in the full back roles, we have good attacking flair that would worry defences.

[blackpoolhibs]

From what i have seen of him, he looks a good player, and he can hit a very good dead ball. I think he will be a good addition to the squad.

[LamontHFC©]

I'd rather Whittaker anyway. Much better player IMO. And can cut inside and have a pop at goal with his right foot if he's play left-back.

[Hibstrooper]

what i find funny is that some of the same people who call him a traitor also sing "why don't you go home" to Scots-Irish players like him and James McCarthy...

What's wrong with telling them to go home (not in "that" song)? They nailed their colours to the mast and have chosen to play for ROI but they are happy to take money from the Scottish game and punters.

They chose Ireland over Scotland - can't understand why they would do that if they regarded Scotland as their "home" so Ireland must be home for them so they can get tae!

[500miles]

Not Scottish by any stretch of the imagation. If he had lived here for a significant period, I could at least understand - putting down roots can make one feel part of a country. However, Fox doesn't come under that banner.

[ancient hibee]

Surely anyone who has played half a dozen games for one of the OF should automatically walk straight in to the national side.

[Vini1875]

A lot of crap is written about McGeady on forums. From what I have been told, celtc don't let their players play for their school teams. Scotland won't pick players at that age who don't play for their schools. So in essence he was snubbed by the SFA's and celtc intransigence. Ireland through Pat Bonner offered him the chance to play for Ireland under the grand parent rule. He continued to play for Ireland when he left school.

In the minds of many it would appear that he should have snubbed Ireland when Scotland came calling a couple of years later. I don't think so and the traitor label is well over the top. The problem is between celtc and the SFA.

[Brando7]

A lot of crap is written about McGeady on forums. From what I have been told, celtc don't let their players play for their school teams. Scotland won't pick players at that age who don't play for their schools. So in essence he was snubbed by the SFA's and celtc intransigence. Ireland through Pat Bonner offered him the chance to play for Ireland under the grand parent rule. He continued to play for Ireland when he left school.

In the minds of many it would appear that he should have snubbed Ireland when Scotland came calling a couple of years later. I don't think so and the traitor label is well over the top. The problem is between celtc and the SFA.

:top marks

The SSFA have subsequently changed their policy that only boys who play for their schools can represent Scottish National youth sides.

[WindyMiller]

Surely anyone who has played half a dozen games for one of the OF should automatically walk straight in to the national side.

Half a dozen games will get you the captain's armband!

[Hibs On Tour]

Tell him to bolt. Arrogant wee **** has only been here five minutes and thinks he can waltz into our national squad? Na. Get tae!

[Brando7]

Surely anyone who has played half a dozen games for one of the OF should automatically walk straight in to the national side.

Actually he was tipped for a call up last December

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/sport-news/scottish-football/international-football/2008/12/28/coventry-ace-danny-fox-admits-he-d-love-to-play-in-dark-blue-of-scotland-78057-21000351/

[blackpoolhibs]

Tell him to bolt. Arrogant wee **** has only been here five minutes and thinks he can waltz into our national squad? Na. Get tae!

Cant see anywhere in that interview where he's being arrogant, or saying he will waltz into anywhere. You may not want him to play for Scotland, but don't make stories up to make your argument stronger.

[Brando7]

U have to laugh at people on here sometimes, any English player over the last few year turning out of Scotland are spoke about normally but as soon as it an OF player they are traitors :bitchy:

[--------]

The grandparent rule isn't one I like, but at least Association Football haven't gone as far as Rugby Union and introduced a residence qualification.

Like it or not, Burley needs to find some decent young defenders - it can't be more than a couple of years before Weir and Alexander start drawing their Old Age Pensions. If Fox can do the job, good luck to him. he's qualified, and he wants to play. And he seems a lot more responsible than certain 'home-grown' neds - sorry, PLAYERS - who're only waiting for Burley to get the chop to get back into the squad.

Now I'd far rather we have Fox in the team than Barry the Ned and his buddy.

[NOLA]

From what i have seen of him, he looks a good player, and he can hit a very good dead ball. I think he will be a good addition to the squad.

I respect your opinion on this, yes he does look like a decent player but at the end of the day he is english! do you think when young daniel was growing up he had a scotland shirt on his shoulders?

[JimBHibees]

What's wrong with telling them to go home (not in "that" song)? They nailed their colours to the mast and have chosen to play for ROI but they are happy to take money from the Scottish game and punters.

They chose Ireland over Scotland - can't understand why they would do that if they regarded Scotland as their "home" so Ireland must be home for them so they can get tae!

Totally agree with that this wasnt a guy who hadnt been picked for Scotland this was a 15/16 year old no doubt on some dodgy advice picking a foreign country rather than their own even though (McGeady and McCarthy) have been born and brought up in Scotland of Scottish parents. I dont get why anyone should think that they shouldnt be criticised for that decision. Obviously it suits some bigoted agendas to include sectarian abuse in it however I think they do deserve be criticised. Maybe Celtc football clubs obsession with all things Irish was an issue in their decision.

Apparently Roy Keane tried to get Darren Fletcher to play for Ireland also as he apparently has an Irish grandparent however Darren told him to bolt and IMO made 100% the right decision.

[Part/Time Supporter]

We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to england.

We were picking second rate English players like Bob Wilson in the good old days when we produced lots of players in every position (not). We haven't had a consistently better national side than England since the 1930s.

[blackpoolhibs]

I respect your opinion on this, yes he does look like a decent player but at the end of the day he is english! do you think when young daniel was growing up he had a scotland shirt on his shoulders?

I'd imagine he would not have worn a Scotland shirt in his life. Although the worlds leading teams have all got players playing for them now, who were born on different continents. Every team will use the rules to their benefits, if we refuse, its only going to hamper us even more. And we will continue to slip further down the pecking order in the qualifying pots.

[JimBHibees]

I'd imagine he would not have worn a Scotland shirt in his life. Although the worlds leading teams have all got players playing for them now, who were born on different continents. Every team will use the rules to their benefits, if we refuse, its only going to hamper us even more. And we will continue to slip further down the pecking order in the qualifying pots.

Makes total sense.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

With him in the squad, we could put out a team with quality in every position:

__________Gordon

Hutton___Caldwell___McManus___Fox

___________Thomson
______Brown______Fletcher

McCormack___O'Connor___McFadden

[Steve20]

With him in the squad, we could put out a team with quality in every position:

__________Gordon

Hutton___Caldwell___McManus___Fox

___________Thomson
______Brown______Fletcher

McCormack___O'Connor___McFadden


Caldwell and McManus quality? :faf::faf:

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Yeah, i think so...

They were vital in both our wins over France, and Celtic's pretty recent CL last 16 and League successes, people have very short memories...

[blackpoolhibs]

With him in the squad, we could put out a team with quality in every position:

__________Gordon

Hutton___Caldwell___McManus___Fox

___________Thomson
______Brown______Fletcher

McCormack___O'Connor___McFadden

:faf::confused::confused:

[7Hero]

thought whittaker was excellent when he came on, would rather him be in that position even though not his natural position. him and hutton flying down the wings perfect for me..

dont like the grand diddy rule, should be scottish end of story.

[Hibster]

With him in the squad, we could put out a team with quality in every position:

__________Gordon

Hutton___Caldwell___McManus___Fox

___________Thomson
______Brown______Fletcher

McCormack___O'Connor___McFadden

Agreed - thats a decent team.

Alexander will probably still be getting a game 5 years from now though....

[hibs1875aye]

This traitor stuff with McGeady seems quite simple - if you are able to play for your country and they want you but you tell them to piss off, doesn't that make you a traitor, deserting the cause to go elsewhere?

On the other hand, if your country doesn't want you and you want to play for someone else, who are you deserting? You are certainly not deserting "your" country as they don't want you.

Or am I missing something in this one? :confused:

Regards Scotland, we arent so good as we can be too picky. I think we should welcome anyone who wants to join our team right into the fold with open arms or, are we so inward looking we can't see this would help our country develop? Perhaps find some Braziliians with Scottish grandparents for good measure :greengrin

[Keith_M]

This traitor stuff with McGeady seems quite simple - if you are able to play for your country and they want you but you tell them to piss off, doesn't that make you a traitor, deserting the cause to go elsewhere?


I totally agree with that. The question, though, is what defines 'your country'. If someone has genuine feelings for the country of his parents/grandparents and has always wanted to play for them, does that not constitute his or her country?

Imagine if Joe Baker had a choice in what country he could have played for (as is true today), he would likely have chosen Scotland, despite being born in England. If he'd had the opportunity to exercise that choice, would it have made him a traitor?

I think a lot of people confuse what is and is not loyalty because of anti-Celtic sentiment. Unfortunately, that has led to some statements on here (not yours hibs1875) that are bordering on or are clearly racist.


p.s. I have NO leanings whatsoever toward Celtc (sorry Jack :wink:)

[NOLA]

I'd imagine he would not have worn a Scotland shirt in his life. Although the worlds leading teams have all got players playing for them now, who were born on different continents. Every team will use the rules to their benefits, if we refuse, its only going to hamper us even more. And we will continue to slip further down the pecking order in the qualifying pots.

You make a good point Blackpool, BUT:wink: he plays 5/6 games for celtic and is suddenly good enough for Scotland? that cant be right surely?

[Cocaine&Caviar]

But even when he was playing at Coventry he was good enough for the National Team when even then it was public knowledge that he was available, its only bee highlighted recently because of his move to the old firm. You also have to understand that he does paly in a position of incredibly low quality and depth, where our main contendors have been McLevely and Naysmith for the last 4 years, with old man Davidson coming in lately...

[blackpoolhibs]

You make a good point Blackpool, BUT:wink: he plays 5/6 games for celtic and is suddenly good enough for Scotland? that cant be right surely?

Thats always been the case lupo, i dont know when the management first found out about his availability, but since he has moved to the smellies, he has looked a player, and worthy of a call up. Unlike some of the others, who have just been called up because of who they play for.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

How many other Scottish Qualified left backs have played Champions League football so far this year?

I can see people annoyance at his being picked for not being a true scotsman, but not just because he plays for one of the old firm...

Look at Steven Smith, a very decent player before he had his injuries, and didnt get capped at a time of dire left backs for the country, where his competitors were playing for Sheff Utd, or once a month for Everton...

[Edinburgh Green]

But even when he was playing at Coventry he was good enough for the National Team when even then it was public knowledge that he was available, its only bee highlighted recently because of his move to the old firm. You also have to understand that he does paly in a position of incredibly low quality and depth, where our main contendors have been McLevely and Naysmith for the last 4 years, with old man Davidson coming in lately...

How was it public knowledge? This is the first time i've heard of it.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Someone posted a link on here earlier about his awareness in December last year, i had heard about it before then, as did the selectors im sure. Just because your personal awareness isnt up to scratch, dont assume that he is being picked solely on his OF presence...

[Hibs On Tour]

Cant see anywhere in that interview where he's being arrogant, or saying he will waltz into anywhere. You may not want him to play for Scotland, but don't make stories up to make your argument stronger.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8240475.stm

This is where I felt he was being arrogant...

So... get aff yer high horse and stop accusing people of making things up, eh? :wink: In fact, I don't seem to recall anyone from the Scotland set-up making any comments about him even being considered so I would say yes the original link with the same quotes shows a level of arrogance in any case!

For me, saying that the reason you're not playing is that your clearance never came through without any other evidence that you would have been playing otherwise is kinda assuming a fair bit, no?

FWIW I don't want us going down the route of how the Republic of Ireland ended up, where to play for them you pretty much just had to have had a pint of Guinness once! Haggis supper or bit of shortbread and you're eligible for Scotland? Not for me... :bitchy:

[Edinburgh Green]

Someone posted a link on here earlier about his awareness in December last year, i had heard about it before then, as did the selectors im sure. Just because your personal awareness isnt up to scratch, dont assume that he is being picked solely on his OF presence...

Ooo bitchy, I'm pretty sure the selectors know of every footballer that have had a stick of highland toffee from the EPL down to the conference league.

As for your last sentance, c'mon he isn't the first and certainly won't be the last player to be selected just after a move to the old firm.

[blackpoolhibs]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8240475.stm

This is where I felt he was being arrogant...

So... get aff yer high horse and stop accusing people of making things up, eh? :wink: In fact, I don't seem to recall anyone from the Scotland set-up making any comments about him even being considered so I would say yes the original link with the same quotes shows a level of arrogance in any case!

For me, saying that the reason you're not playing is that your clearance never came through without any other evidence that you would have been playing otherwise is kinda assuming a fair bit, no?

FWIW I don't want us going down the route of how the Republic of Ireland ended up, where to play for them you pretty much just had to have had a pint of Guinness once! Haggis supper or bit of shortbread and you're eligible for Scotland? Not for me... :bitchy:


He never said he would have been playing, you just made that up again. What he actually said was.

"I couldn't be called up against Macedonia and Holland as the paperwork hasn't gone through," said Fox.

"The next match after that is in Japan and, if I'm still fit and playing for Celtic, I'd love to be selected.

Again i cant see were he's being arrogant, he's obviously been approached by the football authorities, he's been asked to make himself available, the paperwork did not come through in time for these last 2 games, but he'd love to be selected for the next game.:confused: Maybe its just me, but if this is him being arrogant, i just cant see it.

[JackRegan]

Yeah, i think so...

They were vital in both our wins over France, and Celtic's pretty recent CL last 16 and League successes, people have very short memories...

I see McManus and Caldwell every week. They are two very very limited players.

Fox is decent though and fair play to him if he gets called up.

[Speedy]

The grandparent rule isn't one I like, but at least Association Football haven't gone as far as Rugby Union and introduced a residence qualification.

Like it or not, Burley needs to find some decent young defenders - it can't be more than a couple of years before Weir and Alexander start drawing their Old Age Pensions. If Fox can do the job, good luck to him. he's qualified, and he wants to play. And he seems a lot more responsible than certain 'home-grown' neds - sorry, PLAYERS - who're only waiting for Burley to get the chop to get back into the squad.

Now I'd far rather we have Fox in the team than Barry the Ned and his buddy.

:confused:

Personally I have more of a problem with people like Fox than McGeady

[Hibs On Tour]

He never said he would have been playing, you just made that up again. What he actually said was.

"I couldn't be called up against Macedonia and Holland as the paperwork hasn't gone through," said Fox.

"The next match after that is in Japan and, if I'm still fit and playing for Celtic, I'd love to be selected.

Again i cant see were he's being arrogant, he's obviously been approached by the football authorities, he's been asked to make himself available, the paperwork did not come through in time for these last 2 games, but he'd love to be selected for the next game.:confused: Maybe its just me, but if this is him being arrogant, i just cant see it.

Its just you. :greengrin

Why else would you say you "couldn't be called up" unless you expected to be otherwise? Its like me saying that I would be called up for England against Croatia apart from Cappello not having my number!

Try reading my posts again - I haven't made *anything* up. I didn't say that he said he would be playing, merely that he inferred that otherwise he would have been [which he clearly is]. Never played for us at any level. Never had any interest in doing so I dare say until Celtic bought him and he sniffed an easier chance of a cap out. Hence my arrogance comment.

Of course, if ol red nose has been sniffing about him and promising his starts once the paperwork comes through, I'll eat humble pie on it but as of yet, no-one apart from Fox has said jack about it...

[blackpoolhibs]

Its just you. :greengrin

Why else would you say you "couldn't be called up" unless you expected to be otherwise? Its like me saying that I would be called up for England against Croatia apart from Cappello not having my number!
He would have been asked if he wanted to play for Scotland, the authorities would have tried to get the relevant paperwork through, but failed in time for the world cup games, thats why he couldn't be called up for those games
Try reading my posts again - I haven't made *anything* up. I didn't say that he said he would be playing, merely that he inferred that otherwise he would have been [which he clearly is]. Never played for us at any level. Never had any interest in doing so I dare say until Celtic bought him and he sniffed an easier chance of a cap out. Hence my arrogance comment.
He never implied he would be playing, just that he'd love to be selected, you made up the rest, he never said anything arrogant at all.
Of course, if ol red nose has been sniffing about him and promising his starts once the paperwork comes through, I'll eat humble pie on it but as of yet, no-one apart from Fox has said jack about it...
I don't think anyone has promised him any starts?:confused: