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View Full Version : Ramadan and Mourinho's opinion



Kawacabbage10
27-08-2009, 09:44 AM
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Jose-Mourinho-Sparks-Ramadan-Fasting-Row-Inter-Milan-Boss-Criticised-Over-Sulley-Muntari-Comments/Article/200908415369482?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15369482_Jose_Mourinho_Sparks_Ramadan_ Fasting_Row%3A_Inter_Milan_Boss_Criticised_Over_Su lley_Muntari_Comments

Not just Collins who has views on this issue........

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27-08-2009, 10:15 AM
It appears that the more observant the Muslim, the more likely that they'll encounter problems with the fast.

That would figure, especially if the player's abstaining from fluids throughout the day.

It also seems that the timing of matches would have an effect - which again seems reasonable.

Oddly enough, Benji played a full hour last night in a match kicking off at what - 7.45pm?

But the guy who's got himself into an underwear entanglement situation here appears to be neither the player nor the manager, but an Islamic spokesman with no connection to the club....

Sylar
27-08-2009, 10:21 AM
Not overly surprising. Guarenteed that if Yogi made any comments about Benji or Zouma the Muslim Council of Britain would be the first to cry outrage.

I wholeheartedly agree with Mourinho - how can a player expect to be strong and fit enough to play competitively, in one of the hardest leagues and warmest climates in Europe, when he cannot take fluids or nutrients on board throughout the day?

I would imagine there's a case for their faith interfering with their ability to do their contracted job to the best of their ability.

I'd like to add a disclaimer that I am in no way criticising the faith of Islam or indeed the observance of Ramadan!

Woody1985
27-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Not overly surprising. Guarenteed that if Yogi made any comments about Benji or Zouma the Muslim Council of Britain would be the first to cry outrage.

I wholeheartedly agree with Mourinho - how can a player expect to be strong and fit enough to play competitively, in one of the hardest leagues and warmest climates in Europe, when he cannot take fluids or nutrients on board throughout the day?

I would imagine there's a case for their faith interfering with their ability to do their contracted job to the best of their ability.

I'd like to add a disclaimer that I am in no way criticising the faith of Islam or indeed the observance of Ramadan!

They should pay him less salary, any player for that matter who misses out on their contractual obligations due to a lifestyle choice.

I know that there are equality rules etc that will say they can't do this but it's a joke. You can't have it both ways IMO. Or I suppose you can nowadays.

Sylar
27-08-2009, 10:30 AM
They should pay him less salary, any player for that matter who misses out on their contractual obligations due to a lifestyle choice.

I know that there are equality rules etc that will say they can't do this but it's a joke. You can't have it both ways IMO. Or I suppose you can nowadays.

I'd agree with you on both counts.

(((Fergus)))
27-08-2009, 10:52 AM
If you'll pardon the analogy, Mourinho wants to have his cake and eat it.

Sylar
27-08-2009, 10:55 AM
If you'll pardon the analogy, Mourinho wants to have his cake and eat it.

I don't think Mourinho is at fault for his comments though. He has signed a professional player, with the aim of utilising said player to assist in their quest to win Serie A, and whatever other contest Inter participate. If his player's performance is in jeapordy, due to a lifestyle choice, then he has every right to voice concern.

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27-08-2009, 10:58 AM
They should pay him less salary, any player for that matter who misses out on their contractual obligations due to a lifestyle choice.

I know that there are equality rules etc that will say they can't do this but it's a joke. You can't have it both ways IMO. Or I suppose you can nowadays.


Surely if a club signs a player they know to be a Muslim, the question of an observance like Ramadan should be discussed before the contract's signed.

It's not a state secret that Muslims observe Ramadan, some more strictly than others. Benji and Zouma didn't conceal their religious beliefs before they signed for us - it appears that either Mowbray didn't think to ask what their respective attitudes were before he signed them, or Collins didn't take in the fact that he had two highly-gifted Muslim players on his hands, and that Ramadan would perhaps mean he would have to re-think his options.

IIRC one or both of our Moroccan players played/trained for Mowbray through the Ramadan before TM left. Without obvious problems, and without any falling-out.

Sign a Muslim, knowing he's a Muslim - you can't really complain if the guy tells you that it's Ramadan and his religion demands that he lives a certain way. That's got to be sorted out BEFORE you sign the contract. If it ain't in the contract, tough.

HibeeUnderwood
27-08-2009, 10:59 AM
It appears that the more observant the Muslim, the more likely that they'll encounter problems with the fast.

That would figure, especially if the player's abstaining from fluids throughout the day.

It also seems that the timing of matches would have an effect - which again seems reasonable.

Oddly enough, Benji played a full hour last night in a match kicking off at what - 7.45pm?

But the guy who's got himself into an underwear entanglement situation here appears to be neither the player nor the manager, but an Islamic spokesman with no connection to the club....

With regards to Benji, I'm sure that straight after being subbed he made straight for the dressing room where a whole table of food and drink was waiting for him!

Or something like that.

Might be too risky to have a whole table full if someone like Nade is near! :feed:

Sylar
27-08-2009, 11:03 AM
Surely if a club signs a player they know to be a Muslim, the question of an observance like Ramadan should be discussed before the contract's signed.

It's not a state secret that Muslims observe Ramadan, some more strictly than others. Benji and Zouma didn't conceal their religious beliefs before they signed for us - it appears that either Mowbray didn't think to ask what their respective attitudes were before he signed them, or Collins didn't take in the fact that he had two highly-gifted Muslim players on his hands, and that Ramadan would perhaps mean he would have to re-think his options.

IIRC one or both of our Moroccan players played/trained for Mowbray through the Ramadan before TM left. Without obvious problems, and without any falling-out.

Sign a Muslim, knowing he's a Muslim - you can't really complain if the guy tells you that it's Ramadan and his religion demands that he lives a certain way. That's got to be sorted out BEFORE you sign the contract. If it ain't in the contract, tough.

If the player does acknowledge their faith as Islam, and announces their intention (as is their right) to observe Ramadan, a club can't very well turn around and say "well I'm sorry, but we're not going to sign you", as it would be discriminatory.

It's a lose-lose situation for the clubs really.

(((Fergus)))
27-08-2009, 11:09 AM
I don't think Mourinho is at fault for his comments though. He has signed a professional player, with the aim of utilising said player to assist in their quest to win Serie A, and whatever other contest Inter participate. If his player's performance is in jeapordy, due to a lifestyle choice, then he has every right to voice concern.

If he (or the club) never found out about the player's religious practice and based his salary offer on that knowledge then it's their own fault.

People like Mourinho want the benefits of religious observance - and there are many in Islam that are of particular relevance in football (no boozing or hooring, for example) - without having to pay the (small) price of Ramadan.

Why did he sub the guy? Because his performance was poor or because - like Collins - Mournho just assumed he shouldn't be playing?

(((Fergus)))
27-08-2009, 11:13 AM
If the player does acknowledge their faith as Islam, and announces their intention (as is their right) to observe Ramadan, a club can't very well turn around and say "well I'm sorry, but we're not going to sign you", as it would be discriminatory.

It's a lose-lose situation for the clubs really.

Just make a lower salary offer if it's perceived as a problem. Keep the reasons quiet if need be.

Peevemor
27-08-2009, 11:18 AM
I don't think Mourinho is at fault for his comments though. He has signed a professional player, with the aim of utilising said player to assist in their quest to win Serie A, and whatever other contest Inter participate. If his player's performance is in jeapordy, due to a lifestyle choice, then he has every right to voice concern.

Exactly. Some people have chosen to make a fuss about this because it's now apparently forbidden to say anything that may be a criticism of islamic faith. All Mourinho is saying is that it's not an ideal situation - and it's not.

If a British manager said that his players would have to watch how they celebrate Christmas because there's a match on Boxing Day, do you think the christian churches would be upset by that?

Dinkydoo
27-08-2009, 11:42 AM
What I don't understand is that Mourinho is blasted for saying that it may not be good to do this - play whilst fasting that is and not simply "fasting" which some tit has decided that this is what he meant. But the spokesperson guy, whoever he is, is allowed to give examples of some psychological benefits of following a religion and being a professional sportsman.

So, the message that he is clearly making is that you aren't allowed to use logic and common sence to conclude that a personal belief is having a negative effect on a player (or if you do, you can't say it), but you can point out the positives....:blah:

IMO, if we all carried on like that the world would become a bubble wrapped society where there isn't ever any improvement because your not allowed to point out inefficiencies or potential problems in case of causing offence............




....wait a minute :wink:


:duck:

moroccanhibs
27-08-2009, 12:22 PM
will we see the same with Benzema, diara and Lass in real madrid

Benzema and Lass both scored 3 goals in last game, I see them more active then the rest :)

gringojoe
27-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Ive heard Benji has an exemption this year as he is recovering from an illness.