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blackpoolhibs
07-08-2009, 10:47 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/8187408.stm


What a complete and utter shambles.:bitchy:

McD
07-08-2009, 10:55 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/8187408.stm


What a complete and utter shambles.:bitchy:


Completely agree.

And whats happens if the appeal is upheld. Yes, the results are declared null and void, but it leaves all these clubs involved then needing to play further matches against the teams moved back. As many of the teams are part-time, what happens if they are unable to secure their players availability for the enevitable midweek matches.

Not to mention, what happens if a player is injured/booked/sent off in a game against livi/airdrie/cowdenbeath, and then the result is declared null and void?

surreyhibbie
07-08-2009, 11:02 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/8187408.stm


What a complete and utter shambles.:bitchy:

:agree:

Unbelievable gary, couldn't happen anywhere else. What a farce!

PeeKay
07-08-2009, 11:04 AM
Will Livi turn up for their Third Division match against E. Stirlingshire? And if they do and E.Stirlingshire win, they aren't going to be too happy to lose the three points at some later date.

blackpoolhibs
07-08-2009, 11:32 AM
If there is a farce to create, we can rely on those in charge of scottish football to do it.:bitchy:

Danderhall Hibs
07-08-2009, 11:50 AM
If there is a farce to create, we can rely on those in charge of scottish football to do it.:bitchy:

Other than relegating them sooner than they did I'm not sure what else they could've done? Given them no right to appeal?

Hibercelona
07-08-2009, 11:55 AM
Other than relegating them sooner than they did I'm not sure what else they could've done? Given them no right to appeal?

Keep them in Div1.... and let fate decide whether they would have continued or not?

By putting them in Div3, they have killed the club off for certain and also caused a large line of complications in the process.

Danderhall Hibs
07-08-2009, 11:56 AM
Keep them in Div1.... and let fate decide whether they would have continued or not?

By putting them in Div3, they have killed the club off for certain and also caused a large line of complications in the process.


If they had done that they'd have effectively been saying it's ok to break the rules.

Sylar
07-08-2009, 11:59 AM
If they had done that they'd have effectively been saying it's ok to break the rules.

Not if they had imposed a hefty points deduction and forced natural relegation at the end of the season without all this upheavel.

MartinfaePorty
07-08-2009, 12:00 PM
Whilst I agree that it is a total shambles, there a number of countries that have had far worse scandles or administrative cock-ups than Scotland and not just from countries where it might be 'expected' (if you ever read the magazine 'When Saturday Comes', there is at least 1 example per issue).

What desperately needs to happen in Scotland is for there to be 1 ruling body, rather than 3. Doesn't seem like the turkeys will vote for Christmas, though.

WindyMiller
07-08-2009, 12:01 PM
Livi's precarious position has been known for 6 months or more. The SFL (and SPL fo that matter) should have systems in place that ensure the viability of clubs.

timebomb
07-08-2009, 12:05 PM
If the games are declared null and void will the fans get their money back....................my money is on no and they will be expected to shell out again for the replcament fixture.

Utter joke, it takes them far to long to make a decision on things.

We are still awaiting the outcome of McDonald, Loovens & Lafferty incidents from last season and the obligatory fine that Hearts will get for the moron running up to Riordan and collapsing. These all happend about 3 months ago.

VivaPalmeiras
07-08-2009, 12:52 PM
Apologies not been following all the ins/outs:

BUT:

If the consortium's business plan was dependent on playing in the 1st division. I'm surprised when they met the SFL the consortium didn't get this across.

So either

A) Not all the cards were on the table
B) There was a misunderstanding or assumption made that was blown out the water
C) (Additionally?) Theres a bit of brinkmanship gone wrong

Should have been sorted out way before now tho surely?

jgl07
07-08-2009, 12:55 PM
Livi's precarious position has been known for 6 months or more. The SFL (and SPL fo that matter) should have systems in place that ensure the viability of clubs.
Aye all clubs with unsustainable debts, say dept greater than three times their turnover, should be kicked out of the League forthwith.

J-C
07-08-2009, 01:00 PM
Apologies not been following all the ins/outs:

BUT:

If the consortium's business plan was dependent on playing in the 1st division. I'm surprised when they met the SFL the consortium didn't get this across.

So either

A) Not all the cards were on the table
B) There was a misunderstanding or assumption made that was blown out the water
C) (Additionally?) Theres a bit of brinkmanship gone wrong

Should have been sorted out way before now tho surely?


The stumbling block for the consortium seems to be the 720,000 bond, which was asked to secure their fixtures in Div 1 would be met. The consortium would've given stability to the club and wipe out most of the debt bit the bond was a tad too much for them to take.

--------
07-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Apologies not been following all the ins/outs:

BUT:

If the consortium's business plan was dependent on playing in the 1st division. I'm surprised when they met the SFL the consortium didn't get this across.

So either

A) Not all the cards were on the table
B) There was a misunderstanding or assumption made that was blown out the water
C) (Additionally?) Theres a bit of brinkmanship gone wrong

Should have been sorted out way before now tho surely?


I'm fairly sure McGruther made this plain in the press before the meeting with the SFL. he would have been present at that meeting, and I can't imagine he wouldn't have made the situation clear. It would be part of his duty as administrator.

The SFL and SFA should have been into the situation much sooner, of course, rather than leaving the decision to the week of the start of the playing season.

What they SHOULD now do, having made the mess of it that they HAVE done, is postpone the three games and fast-track the appeal to be held in the next few days. The three games could then be played later in the season.

Results can be scrubbed and red/yellow cards rescinded, but if any of the players receives a serious injury on Saturday playing in a match which then turns out to be meaningless....

As bh says - only in Scotland.

Dashing Bob S
07-08-2009, 02:05 PM
If there is a farce to create, we can rely on those in charge of scottish football to do it.:bitchy:

At least the authorities are leading from the front by showing some consistency.

McHibby
07-08-2009, 02:12 PM
Livi's precarious position has been known for 6 months or more. The SFL (and SPL fo that matter) should have systems in place that ensure the viability of clubs.

That is spot on.
I think this decision also shows that they have made their mind up, regardless. So any appeal would be futile anyway. I had always thought it was a point deduction for going into administration?

Leith Green
07-08-2009, 02:13 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/8187408.stm


What a complete and utter shambles.:bitchy:



Gotta laugh eh ! Since the days of Jim Farry and Ernie Walkers think tank, they seem to eclipse themselves with every passing year..

You have to ask as well, should Scotland really have three governing bodies..

MacBean
07-08-2009, 03:21 PM
This is a joke!
The english must be laughing at how poor our league formatS are. They will just get to see how bad it is in comparison to thier great standard of football with the exposure on Sky.

--------
07-08-2009, 03:33 PM
Gotta laugh eh ! Since the days of Jim Farry and Ernie Walkers think tank, they seem to eclipse themselves with every passing year..

You have to ask as well, should Scotland really have three governing bodies..


THREE? Three would be an improvement.

What about the Junior FA? And the Womens' game? And Schools/Juveniles? And the Amateurs? None of whom would surely want to come any closer under the umbrella of what passes for a governing body at Hampden Park?

We have a real talent in Scottish football for watching a situation going slowly but determinedly pear-shaped while doing nothing about it.

It's no accident that the top governing body for the sport in Scotland is the SFA. 'Cos that's all the good they are.

ballengeich
07-08-2009, 03:42 PM
You have to ask as well, should Scotland really have three governing bodies..

A separate question, as one governing body is just as capable of making stupid decisions.

BEEJ
07-08-2009, 05:19 PM
Not if they had imposed a hefty points deduction and forced natural relegation at the end of the season without all this upheavel.
Exactly. :agree:

That was always the way to approach this. Where do they find these jumped-up blazers to run Scottish football? They haven't a clue. :grr:

ancient hibee
07-08-2009, 05:28 PM
It seems to me that the automatic penalty for going into administration should be a 30 point penalty-no ifs and buts and everyone knows the rules.However in their eagerness to punish Gretna a precedent has been set.All football below SPL level is a joke and the quicker some of these clubs go to the wall the better-we've got far too many senior clubs-unless Dunfermline get a big club in a cup I suspect they have already had their biggest gate of the season in the friendly against us.The new regime at Livingston was not going to clear the debts but just try and manage them better.As they owe over 1M they are never going to trade out of it.

Winston Ingram
07-08-2009, 05:39 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/8187408.stm


What a complete and utter shambles.:bitchy:

Total joke:grr:

heretoday
07-08-2009, 05:46 PM
It seems to me that the automatic penalty for going into administration should be a 30 point penalty-no ifs and buts and everyone knows the rules.However in their eagerness to punish Gretna a precedent has been set.All football below SPL level is a joke and the quicker some of these clubs go to the wall the better-we've got far too many senior clubs-unless Dunfermline get a big club in a cup I suspect they have already had their biggest gate of the season in the friendly against us.The new regime at Livingston was not going to clear the debts but just try and manage them better.As they owe over 1M they are never going to trade out of it.

You are right. I wouldn't say ALL football below SPL level is a joke but I am amazed that teams like East Stirling and Elgin have been able to hang around so long.

The Junior teams in Scotland should get more of a chance - if they want it.

Maybe they don't.......

Bishop Hibee
07-08-2009, 05:55 PM
This is a joke!
The english must be laughing at how poor our league formatS are. They will just get to see how bad it is in comparison to thier great standard of football with the exposure on Sky.

Eh? Chester City start in the Blue Square Premier League on -10 points, possibly -35 points as the League and FA aren't in agreement and that's just 1 other league I know about that's cocked up the beginning of the season.

This incident is a mess but rules are rules and Livi shouldn't be treated any different from Gretna :rules:

Also surely Hibs 0-0 away to Blackburn shows that on a one off game, an SPL team can compete with an EPL one.

bingo70
07-08-2009, 06:07 PM
This is a joke!
The english must be laughing at how poor our league formatS are. They will just get to see how bad it is in comparison to thier great standard of football with the exposure on Sky.

Why do you care what the English think?

**** them :agree: :wink:

Green_one
07-08-2009, 06:48 PM
Not certain how much is really the SFL fault given the brinkmanship of the previous owner and the present consortium. Remember the crunch did not really come until recently,when the council pulled the plug.

The SFL probably should not have tried to help Livi, as it was already too late. I did not see anyone saying that too loudly. Since then the two 'buyers' have definitely failed to follow through as expected. I cannot believe that the SFL and the Administrator did not make it clear about the consequences of failure to meet the demands. Are we simply seeing a game of bluff to try to push the bond value down?

Why, for example, did Livi not appeal on the 5th rather than wait until hours before the new season? From an SFL perspective the alternative was to play the 3rd division one team down. Neither option was good. Worst still would have been for Livi to fold mid season, hence the bond. Not playing the arranged game should in itself incurr Livi a severe penalty.

If you want the real problem look to those involved in the running of Livi now and recently.

ballengeich
07-08-2009, 07:03 PM
Not certain how much is really the SFL fault given the brinkmanship of the previous owner and the present consortium. Remember the crunch did not really come until recently,when the council pulled the plug.

The SFL probably should not have tried to help Livi, as it was already too late. I did not see anyone saying that too loudly. Since then the two 'buyers' have definitely failed to follow through as expected. I cannot believe that the SFL and the Administrator did not make it clear about the consequences of failure to meet the demands. Are we simply seeing a game of bluff to try to push the bond value down?

Why, for example, did Livi not appeal on the 5th rather than wait until hours before the new season? From an SFL perspective the alternative was to play the 3rd division one team down. Neither option was good. Worst still would have been for Livi to fold mid season, hence the bond. Not playing the arranged game should in itself incurr Livi a severe penalty.

If you want the real problem look to those involved in the running of Livi now and recently.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the buyers had guaranteed Livingston's 2009-10 season provided they remained in the 1st division, but that their business plan would be withdrawn if the club was relegated. Did the SFL chairman not also say earlier that Livingston would be remaining in the first division?

I don't think the prospective owners can be blamed for the mess caused by previous owners. I think they see a club they can run sensibly, with more realistic aspirations than the last two owners.

If Livingston do fold, West Lothian will have the largest population in Scotland without a league team. If you're then looking for a replacement, Livingston will be the most sensible place to put it, due to the stadium, so it would be sensible for the SFL to try to save them. I suspect that the relegation has been a vote by clubs only interested in their short term advantage.