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View Full Version : Old Firm doing well in the Champions League



Winston Ingram
05-08-2009, 07:25 PM
Is it a good thing or bad thing?

I know it's good for the League's co-efficient which translates into more Europa League places but to me it's a dreadful news for the other teams in the SPL

Putting aside the fact that I despise absolutely everything about them, the reason I think it's dreadful is the money it gives them.

The extra income they get completely ruins the SPL. The extra cash it gives them not only allows them to buy superior players from other leagues but also enables them to weaken the other teams in the SPL

In recent yrs, Rantic's(particularly the Huns) failure in the CL has meant that the pair of them are struggling and the teams they are fielding no longer have the quality of the likes of Sutton, Hartson, Petrov, Larsson, Laudrup, Gascoigne, the De Boers etc.

Having them lumbered with the contracts that the likes of Ferguson picked up hamstrings them for years.

If Celtic by some miracle get past the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Fiorentina or Lyon out will come the cheque book again. In will come a better quality of player and out will go an entertaining league.

If the pair do do well in the CL we get an extra Europa place or enter at a later stage of the Europa league.

Whoopee Doo! What in the last 20 or so yrs, with the odd exception has pretty much translated into a couple of games in a Euro diddy tournament which the bigger and even not so big teams aren't really bothered about. It doesn't even generate that much income.

If you take the Eredivisie as an example, you can see what sort of impact Champions League failure by PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord has done for that league. The likes of Twente and AZ Alkmaar who are no bigger than us or HoMoFC have not only finished in the CL qualifying places in the last few years, AZ have won the league.

To me this is a no brainer. A more competitive league from August to May or a walkover that is finished by the split and a couple of games against a an Eastern European team in September :hmmm:

andrew_dundee
05-08-2009, 07:34 PM
unless the OF win UEFA or the Champions League the co- efficient argument doesn't really come in to play. the idea it gives our countries football a worldwide exposure etc is bollocks because they've been playing in Europe for donkeys years and yet we still haven't seen our league get any better- if anything its become even less of a level playing field.

if the choice is between the OF having a ****ty run in the CL and pocketing millions or them not even qualifying then i know which is beneficial...

hibs1875aye
05-08-2009, 10:55 PM
Hope they both get pumped. Happiest when they are cheated and feel disgruntled, much like their spl opposition every week.

Hibbyradge
05-08-2009, 10:59 PM
Are folk really suggesting that our league would be better if SPL teams failed in Europe?

Seriously?

Like Albania?

Jeezo.

hibs1875aye
05-08-2009, 11:04 PM
Are folk really suggesting that our league would be better if SPL teams failed in Europe?

Seriously?

Like Albania?

Jeezo.

Surely we are allowed to hold this opinion if we want. Why are you shocked nobody wants to see the parasatic leeches fail? They have done us proud right enough....ask the police in manchester about their recent experience with the huns!

Winston Ingram
06-08-2009, 07:02 AM
Are folk really suggesting that our league would be better if SPL teams failed in Europe?

Seriously?

Like Albania?

Jeezo.
firstly, this thread isn't about all spl teams, it's about Rantic. I'm all for other spl teams doing well(apart from Hearts of course). It's about what it costs the league as a whole. It's about whether them doing well and the extra money they get is worth the bone that's thrown at other spl clubs of maybe an extra Europa league place or later entry to what is now a diddy competition at the expense of a competitive league

stephen1875
06-08-2009, 10:58 AM
Of course celtc doing well in Europe is a good thing for the SPL ..........................

I just dont like seeing it happen :greengrin

PeeKay
06-08-2009, 11:11 AM
On the face of it, the OF doing well in the CL, raising the coefficient and allowing more teams into the Europa cup is a good thing. However, the imbalance in the SPL caused by the big money going to the OF means that the rest of the teams are always too weak to ever take advantage of the opportunity and make any significant progress towards the later rounds.

Zimmy
06-08-2009, 11:36 AM
Nothing compares to watching the Bigot Bros getting horsed in the CL.

hibs1875aye
06-08-2009, 11:46 AM
Nothing compares to watching the Bigot Bros getting horsed in the CL.

Yes, that was my take on the whole thing too. Funnily enough, celtic and rangers seem to bring out the worst in me. Could it be their constant gloating and banging on about what they have won? Maybe. when they stop slagging each other about religion and past events that ended years ago. That said, they will never tire of bringing sectarian rubbish to the game which has nothing to do with football.

Woody1985
06-08-2009, 12:02 PM
unless the OF win UEFA or the Champions League the co- efficient argument doesn't really come in to play. the idea it gives our countries football a worldwide exposure etc is bollocks because they've been playing in Europe for donkeys years and yet we still haven't seen our league get any better- if anything its become even less of a level playing field.

if the choice is between the OF having a ****ty run in the CL and pocketing millions or them not even qualifying then i know which is beneficial...

That's not true. IIRC we'll drop down a couple of place in the next year or two in the rankings due to some decent years falling off. I think that's why we now have an automatic qualifier and a 2nd round. Other developing football countries will start to overtake us in the rankings if we (scottish teams) don't perform consistently in Europe.

It's also catch 22. If they don't do well then there's less interest from sponsors etc, less money into the game etc. Also, if they do less well it means we're more likely to lose Europa League places due to..... bad performance in Europe = downgrading in the co-efficent. Therefore, we could lose a CL place or a Europa League meaning that we'd need to come 3rd rather than 4th for a shot at Europe.

This page here shows how we'll fall down if we don't perform.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html

Out of the top 31 countries only two performed worse than us in the last year. We've got a massive score from two years ago but we'll be in trouble unless we up our game in Europe over the next 3 years.

Joe Baker II
06-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Think the question is slighlty misphrased - is debatable whether OF doing well good for SPL as such, probably on balance it is but is a legitimate argument that it increases gap between top clubs and the rest though not one I fully agree with. And this issue is the case in most leagues in Europe so not unique to here, although does not make point less valid.

As opposed to SPL if the question was phrased as good for "Scottish football" overall the answer is definitely yes (particularly if some Scottish players in teams as helps national team as players gain experience playing more variety and often better teams) as enhances prestige/money in game/makes othe rplayers more likely to stay/sign for Scottish clubs etc.

ancient hibee
06-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Is it a good thing or bad thing?

I know it's good for the League's co-efficient which translates into more Europa League places but to me it's a dreadful news for the other teams in the SPL

Putting aside the fact that I despise absolutely everything about them, the reason I think it's dreadful is the money it gives them.

The extra income they get completely ruins the SPL. The extra cash it gives them not only allows them to buy superior players from other leagues but also enables them to weaken the other teams in the SPL

In recent yrs, Rantic's(particularly the Huns) failure in the CL has meant that the pair of them are struggling and the teams they are fielding no longer have the quality of the likes of Sutton, Hartson, Petrov, Larsson, Laudrup, Gascoigne, the De Boers etc.

Having them lumbered with the contracts that the likes of Ferguson picked up hamstrings them for years.

If Celtic by some miracle get past the likes of Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Fiorentina or Lyon out will come the cheque book again. In will come a better quality of player and out will go an entertaining league.

If the pair do do well in the CL we get an extra Europa place or enter at a later stage of the Europa league.

Whoopee Doo! What in the last 20 or so yrs, with the odd exception has pretty much translated into a couple of games in a Euro diddy tournament which the bigger and even not so big teams aren't really bothered about. It doesn't even generate that much income.

If you take the Eredivisie as an example, you can see what sort of impact Champions League failure by PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord has done for that league. The likes of Twente and AZ Alkmaar who are no bigger than us or HoMoFC have not only finished in the CL qualifying places in the last few years, AZ have won the league.

To me this is a no brainer. A more competitive league from August to May or a walkover that is finished by the split and a couple of games against a an Eastern European team in September :hmmm:
Rangers really struggling?who were that crowd that won the league and cup last season?

Hibercelona
06-08-2009, 02:13 PM
Will someone please explain to me how it benefits us in anyway? :confused:

They do better in the CL..... get more money.... and continue to further the gap between the other clubs in the SPL. :confused:

Why does anyone think this is good? :confused:

I don't see how its good for us at all.... it only makes these manks even more powerful! :bitchy:

mikey987654321
06-08-2009, 03:58 PM
Rantic gettin about 12 million each, each time they get into the group stages doesnt help anyone else imo. Its not like any of that money filters through to other clubs. The only time any other clubs see any of that benefit from that money is usually when they are losing one of there better players/good prospects for usually below what they are valued.

The money other clubs make for qaulifying for the Europa league is not worth the massive gap that rantic gain/maintain from doing well in the CL imo of course.

Mikeystewart
06-08-2009, 04:23 PM
There should be an option for Both. Rangers and Celtic doing well increases the coefficient that makes it more likely for other SPL clubs getting into the Chapions League / Europa League, but on the flip side the further the Old Firm gets the more money they make increasing the financial divide between the rest of the league and themselves. So from a viewpoint from the rest of the league the Old Firm will always be the two richest clubs at least untill the rest of the clubs can bring in bigger crowds. Untill the day comes when we're getting 50-60 thousand people attending Pitodrie / Easter Road / Tynecastle we will have to make do with hopefully the coefficient going up and getting into the european Leauges ourselves. So i didnt vote my answer is yes it is bad and yes it is good but its the best we got till the rules or the game changes.

Winston Ingram
06-08-2009, 09:24 PM
Rangers really struggling?who were that crowd that won the league and cup last season?

They are struggling financially

Signed no one.:agree:

Winston Ingram
06-08-2009, 09:27 PM
How people can think these Europa League places are worth Rangers & Celtic having all this cash is beyond me. 3 out of 4 out of the Europa League before the season has even started. No doubt the fuds will get pumped in their upcoming game as well

Hibbyradge
06-08-2009, 11:37 PM
Would the EPL be improved if Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Aresenal were all knocked out of Europe at the first hurdle?

Would La Liga be better if Real and Barca were getting humped in the group stages every year?

Yes?

Would you think more of the Norwegian league if Rosenburg lost 6 - 1 on aggregate in the qualifiers?

I sort of think that if the component parts are crap, the whole can't really be good.

Winston Ingram
07-08-2009, 08:14 AM
Would the EPL be improved if Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Aresenal were all knocked out of Europe at the first hurdle?

Would La Liga be better if Real and Barca were getting humped in the group stages every year?

Yes?

Would you think more of the Norwegian league if Rosenburg lost 6 - 1 on aggregate in the qualifiers?

I sort of think that if the component parts are crap, the whole can't really be good.

Not at all. The CL money doesn't really make as much of a difference. You get more money by playing in the Premier League than you do playing in the CL.

SPL clubs get a pittance from TV money here. If Rantic get into the CL they are both g'teed another 10m each per year. How long would it take an average SPL club to make 10m from TV cash? 6 or 7 yrs?

If Rantic make the CL 6 or 7 yrs in a row that's 70m each. How long would it take us to make that sort of money from TV?

hibs1875aye
07-08-2009, 12:15 PM
Not at all. The CL money doesn't really make as much of a difference. You get more money by playing in the Premier League than you do playing in the CL.

SPL clubs get a pittance from TV money here. If Rantic get into the CL they are both g'teed another 10m each per year. How long would it take an average SPL club to make 10m from TV cash? 6 or 7 yrs?

If Rantic make the CL 6 or 7 yrs in a row that's 70m each. How long would it take us to make that sort of money from TV?

Very good points well made. This is why I am always happier when rangers and celtic exit Europe as soon as possible.

If we ever get into Europe again, and make money out of it, so be it but I am not willing to trade the all the league games and the chance of winning the SPL/The League Cup/The Scottish Cup every season just on the off chance we could get a good run in Europe, thanks to celtic or rangers getting the "co-effecient" up. The only effeciency here is those biggoted swines making more money at our expense.

Winston Ingram
07-08-2009, 05:14 PM
After todays draw for the Yams. Is all the extra money the OF get really worth 2 games against Dinamo Zagreb?