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Keekaboo
25-07-2009, 11:07 AM
Dear all, could any of you old stattos tell me if Hibs have ever had a player with the surname of McNeill (that exact spelling only, which rules out our recent 'goalie'). Had to have actually played for the first team in a competitive match.


This could help me win a bet, I'll let you know which side of the bet I was on after the answer. :wink:




Thanx in advance for your asssistance.


:thumbsup:

WindyMiller
25-07-2009, 11:11 AM
Dear all, could any of you old stattos tell me if Hibs have ever had a player with the surname of McNeill (that exact spelling only, which rules out our recent 'goalie'). Had to have actually played for the first team in a competitive match.


This could help me win a bet, I'll let you know which side of the bet I was on after the answer. :wink:






Thanx in advance for your asssistance.


:thumbsup:
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/McNeill_George_619123412.aspx

Keekaboo
25-07-2009, 11:16 AM
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/McNeill_George_619123412.aspx

Thanking you

:thumbsup:

Leitherhibs
25-07-2009, 11:16 AM
http://www.hibs.co.uk/stats/Appearances_since_1960.php

Keekaboo
25-07-2009, 11:19 AM
http://www.hibs.co.uk/stats/Appearances_since_1960.php

That's a fantastic webpage, thanks.


Unfortunately, I LOST my bet. I thought he'd never played for the first team.


Thanks anyway guys.

hibbybrian
25-07-2009, 11:47 AM
That's a fantastic webpage, thanks.


Unfortunately, I LOST my bet. I thought he'd never played for the first team.


Thanks anyway guys.

Sorry you lost your bet

George played on the left wing for Hibs in a 3-0 win v St Johnstone on 18th Dec 1965 - to Hibs

here's a pic of George warming up

4758

Lucius Apuleius
25-07-2009, 11:49 AM
Another Stirling Albion man(at least I seem to recall him playing with them!!!) Surprised there were cameras fast enough then to actually take his picture. Made Ivan look like Joe Harper.:wink:

--------
25-07-2009, 12:59 PM
Another Stirling Albion man(at least I seem to recall him playing with them!!!) Surprised there were cameras fast enough then to actually take his picture. Made Ivan look like Joe Harper.:wink:


Became a professional sprinter after he left Hibs. He was barred from the Scotland team for the 1970 Commonwealth Games because he had played professional football with us. I think that game against St Johnstone was what went against him - he'd have got into the Games squad if he hadn't appeared for the first team, IIRC.

He was the fastest man in the world at his time - in 1970 he clocked 11 seconds flat over 110 metres at Meadowbank, registered on the same timing equipment used to time the athletes who WERE allowed to compete in the games.

If you allow that in the last ten metres of a straight sprint the sprinter's actually slowing down, that means he ran the first 100 meters in at worst 10 seconds dead, but almost certainly in UNDER 10 seconds.

No 'amateur' sprinter was anywhere near similar times for 100 metres in 1970.

When you think of the fortunes 'amateur' Olympic athletes expect to make nowadays, the fact that George was never allowed to represent his country is a scandal.

(Even then people like David Bedford and Kip Keino were receiving very generous 'expenses' to appear in invitation meets all over the world. And although Bedford was one of the great under-achievers of world athletics, he still made a very nice career for himself with the 'Amateur' Athletics Association.)

http://www.tmcentertainment.co.uk/speaker-index.html?speakerid=21&speakertypeid=37

Chris Brasher said it all in that article.

Correction - Jim Hines ran under 10 seconds in Mexico at the 1968 Olympics. But that was at high altitude, and the 10-second barrier wasn't officially broken at low altitude until Carl Lewis did it in 1983, clocking 9.97 seconds.

That's how good George was.

WindyMiller
25-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Thanking you

:thumbsup:

And less of the "old fart" young man.

--------
25-07-2009, 01:12 PM
And less of the "old fart" young man.


Well if you will insist on calling yourself WindyMiller, what do you expect? :devil:

hibbybrian
25-07-2009, 01:15 PM
Well if you will insist on calling yourself WindyMiller, what do you expect? :devil:

:top marks Doddie :thumbsup:

WindyMiller
25-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Well if you will insist on calling yourself WindyMiller, what do you expect? :devil:

:shotdowni

:applause:

Luna_Asylum
25-07-2009, 07:50 PM
Became a professional sprinter after he left Hibs. He was barred from the Scotland team for the 1970 Commonwealth Games because he had played professional football with us. I think that game against St Johnstone was what went against him - he'd have got into the Games squad if he hadn't appeared for the first team, IIRC.

He was the fastest man in the world at his time - in 1970 he clocked 11 seconds flat over 110 metres at Meadowbank, registered on the same timing equipment used to time the athletes who WERE allowed to compete in the games.

If you allow that in the last ten metres of a straight sprint the sprinter's actually slowing down, that means he ran the first 100 meters in at worst 10 seconds dead, but almost certainly in UNDER 10 seconds.

No 'amateur' sprinter was anywhere near similar times for 100 metres in 1970.

When you think of the fortunes 'amateur' Olympic athletes expect to make nowadays, the fact that George was never allowed to represent his country is a scandal.

(Even then people like David Bedford and Kip Keino were receiving very generous 'expenses' to appear in invitation meets all over the world. And although Bedford was one of the great under-achievers of world athletics, he still made a very nice career for himself with the 'Amateur' Athletics Association.)

http://www.tmcentertainment.co.uk/speaker-index.html?speakerid=21&speakertypeid=37

Chris Brasher said it all in that article.

Correction - Jim Hines ran under 10 seconds in Mexico at the 1968 Olympics. But that was at high altitude, and the 10-second barrier wasn't officially broken at low altitude until Carl Lewis did it in 1983, clocking 9.97 seconds.

That's how good George was.

absolute pish

Dibben
25-07-2009, 07:56 PM
absolute pish

Whoa mate...

This isn't the 'how are Hearts playing' thread...?

Oh hang on...

:wink: :greengrin

BH.

Wilson
25-07-2009, 07:59 PM
Whoa mate...

This isn't the 'how are Hearts playing' thread...?

Oh hang on...

:wink: :greengrin

BH.

Nor is it the rate Nade thread.

Dibben
25-07-2009, 08:03 PM
Nor is it the rate Nade thread.

:agree: :thumbsup:

BH.

--------
26-07-2009, 08:17 AM
absolute pish



Really? Care to explain?

BRW - my source was Alan Wells' better half herself - the lovely Margo.

Who knew very well what she was talking about, being a notable sprinter and not inconsiderable coach herself.

But then, going by your colour ID, you'd be a real expert on urine and all related topics, right?

:cool2:

Caversham Green
26-07-2009, 08:33 AM
Really? Care to explain?

BRW - my source was Alan Wells' better half herself - the lovely Margo.

Who knew very well what she was talking about, being a notable sprinter and not inconsiderable coach herself.

But then, going by your colour ID, you'd be a real expert on urine and all related topics, right?

:cool2:

Don't hold your breath waiting for a sensible reply here Doddie.

--------
26-07-2009, 08:57 AM
Don't hold your breath waiting for a sensible reply here Doddie.


The reason I said that was that in 1975-6 I was unemployed and spending a lot of time in Meadowbank and other venues working with the Scottish National Fencing Coach, Bert Bracewell. One Thursday evening we had finished the afternoon schools'ession and were in the cafeteria having a break (and a Kit-Kat) before the adults arrived at 6.30 for the club session. Margo and Alan Wells came in, accompanied by George McNeill and a young lad from Tranent whom I knew - Drew McMaster - he was a 400-metre runner.

Margo and I happened to be up at the counter at the same time. I knew her from teaching, and we spoke. The subject of the 110-metre record came up - the guy was right there in the room, after all - and I passed the comment that 110 metres in 11 seconds worked out to 100 metres in 10 dead. Margo grinned and said, 'Actually, I'm pretty sure that the last 10 metres wasn't the fastest 10 metres' and started to move away.

I asked her what she meant and she said that in a short sprint the runner tended to drive off the blocks, accelerating through the first 2/3 or 3/4 of the race, at which point the oxygen already in his blood was exhausted and he was literally running on whatever he could breathe in (anaerobic exertion?). So for the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the race he's coasting in a sense - accelerating through the first 50, really motoring in the third 25, and coasting in the last 25. Fastest in the middle, as I understood it.

There's always that last lunge for the tape, but she was very clear - the last 10 metres were very unlikely to have been the fastest 10 metres.

So there's every likelihood that George McNeill ran 100 metres that night in under 10 seconds. But no one will ever know.

Margo then expressed regret that no one had had the foresight to put a sensor at the 100 metre mark to unofficially record George's time over the Olympic distance.

Now I may have picked her up wrong, but my memory of MW is that of a lady who was well able to express herself clearly and who knew her stuff regarding sprinting and the mechanics thereof. George was at that time working with Margo and Alan and Drew and a number of other Scots sprinters - work that paid off in 1978 when the Scots won the Commonwealth Games 4 by 100 metres relay, and later still with the Olympic gold for AW in Moscow.

Of course, I'm sure Nade and Clum and the rest of the Jumbo community know things about the movement of bodies that Margo never dreamed of. :devil:

ancient hibee
26-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Didn't George score direct from a corner in the game he played?

Killiehibbie
26-07-2009, 11:40 AM
Didn't George score direct from a corner in the game he played?

I heard he took the corner then headed it in at the back post. :greengrin

hibbybrian
26-07-2009, 11:52 AM
Didn't George score direct from a corner in the game he played?

goalscorers were Peter Cormack, Alan Cousin and Jimmy O'Rourke

George played 22 games for the reserves that season scoring 5 goals

--------
26-07-2009, 01:03 PM
I heard he took the corner then headed it in at the back post. :greengrin


He was just about quick enough to manage that..... :agree:

Luna_Asylum
04-08-2009, 06:28 AM
Really? Care to explain?

BRW - my source was Alan Wells' better half herself - the lovely Margo.

Who knew very well what she was talking about, being a notable sprinter and not inconsiderable coach herself.

But then, going by your colour ID, you'd be a real expert on urine and all related topics, right?

:cool2:

Reaction time and time to accelerate to max add mean an approx extra second for the first 10 metres

this link gives examples:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/sprints/

this one gives the maths:

http://mathdl.maa.org/mathDL/4/?pa=content&sa=viewDocument&nodeId=478&pf=1

I always found it a bit hard to take Margo Wells seriously after her performance in Moscow.

ancient hibee
04-08-2009, 06:20 PM
Reaction time and time to accelerate to max add mean an approx extra second for the first 10 metres

this link gives examples:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/sprints/

this one gives the maths:

http://mathdl.maa.org/mathDL/4/?pa=content&sa=viewDocument&nodeId=478&pf=1

I always found it a bit hard to take Margo Wells seriously after her performance in Moscow.

Aye must be hopeless coaching the olympic champion.

--------
06-08-2009, 11:27 AM
Reaction time and time to accelerate to max add mean an approx extra second for the first 10 metres

this link gives examples:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/sprints/

this one gives the maths:

http://mathdl.maa.org/mathDL/4/?pa=content&sa=viewDocument&nodeId=478&pf=1

I always found it a bit hard to take Margo Wells seriously after her performance in Moscow.


Aye - a right disgrace, getting all excited because her man was winning the Olympic Gold Medal - UK sprinters do it all the time.

Right ignorant wee bizzum - blonde too, IIRC. Should have known she knew nothing.

heretoday
06-08-2009, 03:53 PM
I saw George McNeill in his game for Hibs on the left wing. The highlight was definitely his ability to curl in a corner from the left. His first effort had to be tipped over by the goalie and the subsequent corner hit the bar.

Can't remember anything else!

ancient hibee
06-08-2009, 06:24 PM
I saw George McNeill in his game for Hibs on the left wing. The highlight was definitely his ability to curl in a corner from the left. His first effort had to be tipped over by the goalie and the subsequent corner hit the bar.

Can't remember anything else!

So at least I was near when I thought he scored direct:greengrin

heretoday
07-08-2009, 03:35 PM
So at least I was near when I thought he scored direct:greengrin

Did He? I can't remember! I must be getting old. He didn't get another game for Hibs so maybe he didn't! I've got programmes from that era. I'll check it out.

ancient hibee
07-08-2009, 05:05 PM
Did He? I can't remember! I must be getting old. He didn't get another game for Hibs so maybe he didn't! I've got programmes from that era. I'll check it out.
No he didn't score but I knew something unusual had happened.He took 2 corners one after the other and nearly scored each time.

heretoday
07-08-2009, 06:06 PM
No he didn't score but I knew something unusual had happened.He took 2 corners one after the other and nearly scored each time.

You're right. I'm carrying out extensive research on this (which involves dragging a huge box of programmes into the light of day) so watch this space!

HERE GOES: I am now looking at two copies of the programme for the game in question. McNeill was not down in the original prog but was pencilled in by me and my dad as instructed by the tannoy! He replaced the great Eric S. on the day.

The team featured a halfback line of Stanton, McNamee and Baxter. The reserve news at the back seems to mention a certain Colin Stein a lot! also George McNeill scored for Hibs in a reserve fixture against Partick on 30 Oct. He played a lot of games for the reserves. I will now return to my cave!

heretoday
07-08-2009, 06:56 PM
The programme of Sat 1st Jan 1966 v Hearts reads:

"NO CHALLENGERS TO GEORGE

If there are no challengers to left winger George McNeill for the title of Hibs' fastest sprinter then it's not surprising because the Tranent teenager entered for the Powderhall Sprint today.

He was given eight yards in the popular New Year event, and plans to run at the Summer games whenever the opportunity arises.

George was the athletic ace at Ross High School, Tranent, and now he uses his pace to maximum advantage on the football field.

An apprentice quantity surveyor, George had a happy baptism into senior football against St Johnstone and almost got amongst the goals with two inswinging corner kicks."

So there you go....

Sergey
07-08-2009, 07:08 PM
There was another McNeil who played for Hibs called Matt.

He made a single outing as a centre-half in the 1949-50 season before being sold to Newcastle Utd. He then played for Barnsley 1951, Brighton 1953 and Norwich City 1956.

heretoday
07-08-2009, 08:07 PM
I don't have any programmes for that! You're right though.